Rank in Freemasonry

[wayne cowley]

Just out of interest, what different policies do your various Provinces have re ranks for brethren who have never been WM?

My mother province is Essex where those worthy brethren are typically appointed PPGPurs, and London is different, as always but I've seen Deacons (Somerset) and an AsstSuptWks in Kent with roundels not levels.

This is at the discretion of PGMs and therefore liable to change, but do your PGMs have any particular policies re this at the moment?

S&F, Jules

In South Wales, it is almost always PProvGStwd. However, PProvAGOrg or PProvAGChap may be used for suitably talented/qualified brethren

Wayne

[jackal]

In Staffordshire it is almost always PPrAGDC, with a few exceptions such as Wayne's post above.

[Kyle]

Just out of interest, what different policies do your various Provinces have re ranks for brethren who have never been WM?

My mother province is Essex where those worthy brethren are typically appointed PPGPurs, and London is different, as always but I've seen Deacons (Somerset) and an AsstSuptWks in Kent with roundels not levels.

This is at the discretion of PGMs and therefore liable to change, but do your PGMs have any particular policies re this at the moment?

S&F, Jules

I've been to one province where they use PProvAGStB, but I can't remember where! Think it was Hampshire or Berkshire.

K

[Guy]

I've been to one province where they use PProvAGStB, but I can't remember where! Think it was Hampshire or Berkshire.

K

Hampshire & Isle of Wight - not many a year get PPAGStdB, and they are always well deserved. It used to be PProvGStwd but in the late '80s the then PGM wanted to use the Stewards differently so started to use ProvGStwd as the rank for 'up and coming' young IPMs.

A good friend of mine was awarded PPAGStdB (with the rosettes) after long service. Last year the Lodge convinced him to go through the chair so his apron is very rare now in Hampshire - PPAGStdB but with levels, not the 'normal' rosettes.

[Richard George]

Our highest (normally promotions) is PPSGD. First appointment - normally ProvGStwd or PPGStB.

[CoventrySquared]

I'm pleased to say I have Acting ProvSGD in Warwickshire to be appointed in May

[Jimmy Green]

I have just received notification from PGL that I am to be honoured with a first appointment of PProvAGDC. Investiture 13th June.

[gcoudert]

Is there any reason why different Provinces appoint and invest their Provincial officers at different times of the year? Just wondering.

[middlepillar]

One of the reasons is quite simple! A lot of Provinces hold their Annual Meetings at Great Queen St, therefore they all cant meet on the same day so they must all be different!

[gcoudert]

One of the reasons is quite simple! A lot of Provinces hold their Annual Meetings at Great Queen St, therefore they all cant meet on the same day so they must all be different!

I think ours is held in Bedford but I could be wrong.

[Richard George]

They often won't even let the ProvGSec know until about 4-6 weeks before. We got lucky in being told at the last QC. Chances are it will/may be announced on Wednesday ...
(BTW - don't forget to sign in as ProvSGD - not ProvGSD .. the former is the Craft rank, the latter the Mark)

Okay another question from a colonial -- does the GLMMM have provinces and PGMs like the Craft (UGLE) in England/Wales? If so how many members does it have?

Yes; the full title is "Grand Lodge of Mark Master Masons of England and Wales and its Districts and Lodges overseas". And 'yes' to Provincial Grand Masters. As to how many members - no idea.

[Richard George]

One of the reasons is quite simple! A lot of Provinces hold their Annual Meetings at Great Queen St, therefore they all cant meet on the same day so they must all be different!

I think ours is held in Bedford but I could be wrong.

We hold ours in the Guildhall in Cambridge, followed by dining in Queens College.

[Hemlock]

In response to Julians question, if you havn't been through the chair the highest in Notts is PPGPurs same as Essex, using dark blue rosettes. If there are a huge number of masons in the province you could have a PPAGPurs but I never heard of one.

Also not heard of non-past masters getting anything above PPGPurs so suprised to hear its possible in other provinces.

Rule 68 gives a table of how many promotions and what each PGM is allowed to give, not withstanding rule 69a of course. So for a PPAGPurs you would need at least 6000 brethren in your province. To promote anyone to PPAGReg you need over 3000, and may explain why Notts do not have any and Essex do.

[Hemlock]

I have just received notification from PGL that I am to be honoured with a first appointment of PProvAGDC. Investiture 13th June.

Congratulations, enjoy.

[Richard George]

In response to Julians question, if you havn't been through the chair the highest in Notts is PPGPurs same as Essex, using dark blue rosettes. If there are a huge number of masons in the province you could have a PPAGPurs but I never heard of one.

Also not heard of non-past masters getting anything above PPGPurs so suprised to hear its possible in other provinces.

Rule 68 gives a table of how many promotions and what each PGM is allowed to give, not withstanding rule 69a of course. So for a PPAGPurs you would need at least 6000 brethren in your province. To promote anyone to PPAGReg you need over 3000, and may explain why Notts do not have any and Essex do.

1500+ members, so we don't get a PPAGPurs or a PPAGReg! (It's first appointments - not promotions!)

[Coinneach]

Just out of interest, what different policies do your various Provinces have re ranks for brethren who have never been WM?

My mother province is Essex where those worthy brethren are typically appointed PPGPurs, and London is different, as always but I've seen Deacons (Somerset) and an AsstSuptWks in Kent with roundels not levels.

This is at the discretion of PGMs and therefore liable to change, but do your PGMs have any particular policies re this at the moment?

S&F, Jules

I've been to one province where they use PProvAGStB, but I can't remember where! Think it was Hampshire or Berkshire.

K

Yes, that sounds like Berkshire - in my Berkshire lodge we have PProvAGStBs without levels. I also know of a PProvGStB who is on the ladder but has yet to reach the chair. Not been around long enough to understand how the whole Provincial thing works but I'm not away of anything much else being used for those who haven't been through the chair.

[Kyle]

I was at a meeting today with a PProvAGStB with dark blue rosettes - he was from West Kent.

K

[Richard George]

In my mother lodge, we have (or had rather as one died in October last year) three members who wear dark blue and rosettes.

One was originally appointed PPGStB and is now PPJGD. He had worked his way up to JW before his job prevented him from going further, so he took over as Treasurer and did that job for 5 years, then became Assistant Secretary and Charity Steward, and is now ADC.

A second was appointed to ProvGStwd and then promoted to PPGStB. He had been our Ladies Festival secretary for something like 30 years, and Assistant Secretary for 20 years before handing that particular job over to the one above. He's now serving in the Grand Lodge Above.

The third was originally appointed to ProvGStwd, promoted first to PPGStB and then to PPAGSec. He's been our Almoner since 2005, and took over the Ladies Festival secretary from the guy above at the same time.

Between the three of them, they have kept the lodge running in the backgound from before I became a member (1989) to the current day. If anyone was to tell me they don't deserve Provincial recognition, they'd get pretty short thrift!

[Hemlock]

Got my PPAGReg from Essex last week and used it for the first time on Monday, where I had to go home early due to a cold (masons' flu). But not before a few "Tut tuts". Has to be done.

[London Mason]

Just out of interest, what different policies do your various Provinces have re ranks for brethren who have never been WM?

My mother province is Essex where those worthy brethren are typically appointed PPGPurs, and London is different, as always but I've seen Deacons (Somerset) and an AsstSuptWks in Kent with roundels not levels.

This is at the discretion of PGMs and therefore liable to change, but do your PGMs have any particular policies re this at the moment?

S&F, Jules

I've been to one province where they use PProvAGStB, but I can't remember where! Think it was Hampshire or Berkshire.

K

Yes, that sounds like Berkshire - in my Berkshire lodge we have PProvAGStBs without levels. I also know of a PProvGStB who is on the ladder but has yet to reach the chair. Not been around long enough to understand how the whole Provincial thing works but I'm not away of anything much else being used for those who haven't been through the chair.

London being London, as we don't have "past" Metropolitan Ranks in the manner of the Provincial Lodges, for those brethren who haven't yet been through the chair, but have had such service to their lodge in many different ways they deserve recognition, the rank of London Rank (with blue rosettes rather than levels) is bestowed.

Ironically, if that brother subsequently goes through the chair, they automatically get "upgraded" to London Grand Rank - however, I haven't heard of anyone getting this yet.